Curse

Aeritath · Mar 29, 2011, 04:57 AM // 04:57

So I'm having trouble vanquishing a few areas around the Mouth of Torment (Joko's Domain specifically) in which I have to kill large groups of Awakened when not in the wurm.

The problem is I'm getting blasted way too fast and for too much damage, and can't actually do anything.

My build is myself as either SoS, or curses (I'm ele so i usually go with secondary in HM) 3 Disc, Panic Mes, Heal/prot monk (tried both to no avail), SoS rit, and a ranger for Frozen Soil.

I realize this build is not so great for this zone, but I'm not sure what would suffice to mitigate all of that damage and still be able to do decent damage.

Would really appreciate any help with this guys!

awry · Mar 29, 2011, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Forget the ranger, make your sos rit go /r and bring fs. Bring a derv for holy dmg. Bring a prot smiter monk to give another melee holy dmg. I used those three back when there I had to used henchmen and it still worked. In undead areas, holy dmg/smite> discord

aga · Mar 29, 2011, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Discord is a massive fail in any area.

Best advide I can give for those areas is bring DP removal, since using wurms is a 1 way ticket to DP heavan (That badly sounds like a porn film). Use at least 1 RoJ, and those undead mobs will explode, maybe even go RoJ yourself if you don't fancy the ele skills in HM.

Aeritath · Mar 29, 2011, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Yeah I've been reading more about it and I'm coming to understand its not so great for alot of things.

Really used to to get through nm on campaigns and some HM stuff but I'm looking to re-order and get a new semi-regular build for my heros, just not sure what to do yet heh.

I will slap RoJ on two hero's and watch em burn

thanks guys

Kojima · Mar 29, 2011, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Switch the ranger. Also remember to kill the Acolytes first because they will rez others. next on the list will be the Thought Leeches. Do not worry so much about the giants until the casters are dead. I use SOS on my ranger with discord and it works well so I do not think that discord is lacking there. It might be because of other reasons. I usually bring a derv with me though. The damages can be amazing. On some runs I will bring discord, mes and 2 dervs. It makes the run faster.

azzer20 · Mar 29, 2011, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Acolytes -> Cavaliers -> thought leech. The rest.

The 2 first can res.

Try with a Healing Burst monk, and as the others say, Smiting in Joko's is really really good, and as ele, you can run an Earth build if you don't have enough defense.

Zidane Ortef · Mar 29, 2011, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by azzer20

Acolytes -> Cavaliers -> thought leech. The rest.

The 2 first can res.

Try with a Healing Burst monk, and as the others say, Smiting in Joko's is really really good, and as ele, you can run an Earth build if you don't have enough defense.

Cavaliers are a bigger problem then the acolytes because the spam both we shall return and signet of return were as the acolytes just have restore life and with a mesmer or two they should get rupted so either have the dmg 2 spike the cavaliers before they rez spam or bring skills like vocal minority etc to combat the shouts.

Squishy ftw · Mar 29, 2011, 07:19 AM // 07:19

As said before, smiting is the way to go here.

Whenever possible, pull the awakened alongside a wall/rock/whatever and block their path with your spirits. Pre-cast FS before pulling and when they ball up against the spirits -> 3x RoJ and BOOM, awakened gone.

BrettM · Mar 29, 2011, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by aga

Discord is a massive fail in any area.

Oh, absolutely! Why, I vanquished the entire Desolation last weekend with a Discord team, had no member of the party die while outside of wurms, and turned in acceptable times (1:16 for Joko's, no cons, no FS, no smite). Wow, what a massive fail that was! I can't believe I was silly enough to try such a stunt.

From now on I promise I will be fashionably dismissive of Discord, and casually drop jaded generalizations into every thread I can find where Discord is mentioned.

aga · Mar 29, 2011, 01:34 PM // 13:34

The point is, discord is sub par now since the 7 hero update. I'm not saying it doesn't work, there's just so many better options that are now availible, but I guess these are not on PvX (yet?) so a lot of people won't accept them.

Sanity Abandon · Mar 29, 2011, 03:33 PM // 15:33

I did this VQ long before the 7 hero update and ended up finding a build using 3 smite monks in one of the forums. The build is as follows.

Castignation Signet > Signet of Judjment > Smite Condition > Smite Hex > Reversal of Damage > Smiter's Boon > Divine Boon > Divine Spirit

OwAS4YIPWfTC13lgXr+cEbC

Set up all three of your monk heroes with this build. I ended up taking the two monk henchies, the earth ele, and I think the derv. The groups of awakened just blew up, and I didn't even bring fs. They died so fast even their rezing couldn't help them.

I started from Basalt Grotto so that I could take on the first awakened group with the para boss early to save time if it didn't work. You can use the terrain to pull them around the corner of the mountain so they ball up nicely. Most of the large groups can be balled up on the terrain with proper pulling.

Now with 7 heroes it should be even easier. I have been using these smite monks with the 2 RT from spiritway, and 2 N/RT healers to do SoO in HM and even when getting aggro from 2 groups they handle the pressure just fine.

noneedforclevernames · Mar 29, 2011, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Bring 3 ROJ monks with heals (You can have additional supoort heals too), If your party gets in trouble damage wise, put the monks on don't attack...how many of the monks you command is depending on how bad the situation is.

BrettM · Mar 29, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I guess we had a communication problem, then. When I see the words "massive fail", I think they mean "unsuccessful". When something does not succeed, I consider that "not working". Apparently we are not using the same dictionary and "massive fail" actually means "somewhat underperforming in comparison to alternatives".

I had more written, but MY point is that flippant, inflamatory hyperbole only serves to derail yet another thread into a pro/anti-Discord debate. There are already plenty of threads where that is more appropriate. A simple "Discord is not your best choice in dealing with undead" would have sufficed, since this is unquestionably true and not particularly judgemental about the general merits of that team build.

Bralkanar · Mar 29, 2011, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by aga

The point is, discord is sub par now since the 7 hero update. I'm not saying it doesn't work, there's just so many better options that are now availible, but I guess these are not on PvX (yet?) so a lot of people won't accept them.

Ohh... so please, tell us what is the "so many better options" that we have?
If u know SO MANY, share with us please.

Bralkanar · Mar 29, 2011, 04:42 PM // 16:42

A simple "Discord is not your best choice in dealing with undead" would have sufficed, since this is unquestionably true and not particularly judgemental about the general merits of that team build.

/signed

aga · Mar 29, 2011, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bralkanar

Ohh... so please, tell us what is the "so many better options" that we have?
If u know SO MANY, share with us please.

Lol. So you think 3 heroes doing 100~ damage each on 1 target, while having to heal at the same time, is an optimum build? When you have other heroes doing 100~ AoE damage, and shutting down at the same time. RoJ is one of the best skills in the game, sure it causes scatter, but you'll still get well over 150 damage on the targets. There's just so many better skills to use then discord, FoC, PoD, Ravenous Gaze, Defile/Desecrate enchantments and MoP, these are just necro skills, and are never seen on discord bars. There's dozens of mes skills which are better aswell but i cba listing them all.

BrettM · Mar 29, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

So you think AoE skills with Big Numbers are all that is required to make a build optimal? No need to consider cost, cast time, or cooldown? No need to consider that heroes will gladly use those skills on single targets that do not have any other foes within the required range for the AoE effect, using them to do single-target damage that is inferior to the single-target damage of Discord?

There are a lot of factors to consider in making a build optimal, and AoE damage is not always optimal even if it has big damage numbers attached to it. (And you have to be a bit careful in judging those big numbers. Take FoC, for example. You are aware, are you not, that Shadow Damage is not armor ignoring? It is non-elemental/non-physical damage that does not ignore base armor.)

Squishy ftw · Mar 29, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Take FoC, for example. You are aware, are you not, that Shadow Damage is not armor ignoring? It is non-elemental/non-physical damage that does not ignore base armor.)

How sure are you about that example of yours ?

karunpav · Mar 29, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Take FoC, for example. You are aware, are you not, that Shadow Damage is not armor ignoring? It is non-elemental/non-physical damage that does not ignore base armor.)

Aaaaaaand there goes your credibility.

OT: I vanquished Joko's Domain on my necro using 3 RoJ hybrid monks. Spirits and mesmers filled out the rest of the party.

Bandwagon · Mar 29, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeritath

So I'm having trouble vanquishing a few areas around the Mouth of Torment (Joko's Domain specifically) in which I have to kill large groups of Awakened when not in the wurm.

The problem is I'm getting blasted way too fast and for too much damage, and can't actually do anything.

My build is myself as either SoS, or curses (I'm ele so i usually go with secondary in HM) 3 Disc, Panic Mes, Heal/prot monk (tried both to no avail), SoS rit, and a ranger for Frozen Soil.

I realize this build is not so great for this zone, but I'm not sure what would suffice to mitigate all of that damage and still be able to do decent damage.

Would really appreciate any help with this guys!

you have an SoS rit and an SoS human player? right now your vanqing with effectively 7 people under those premises.

I vanq'd Jokos without cons or FS, if your getting blown up, bring a ST-prot spirit pooper.

Your Discords are not complementing your team currently, I would suggest running a spirit-wayish set up, there are very few corpses in Jokos so MMs are not all that useful. perhaps bring another mesmer for illusion magic-spammage. Discord is only viable if you are a caller, otherwise they are dead weight, and better elites would complement the team.

Without dedicated physcials, even with the retarded melee hero AI, you will need to score your kills by spiking or outlasting (outlasting doesn't work when Awakened rez), physicals win in HM so bringing skills like barbs or Microing MoP with some Derv / Warrior physicals can greatly increase your chances for success (I recommend bringing Assassin support as a caster just because of this). Keep in mind that Thought-leeches eat hexes like no tomorrow, and they also disable elite skills.

If you bring smite support and physicals, the damage from smite hex and smite condition (as well as ROJ assuming it actually goes off b/c of Cry of Frustration) is enormous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

Take FoC, for example. You are aware, are you not, that Shadow Damage is not armor ignoring? It is non-elemental/non-physical damage that does not ignore base armor.)

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.